Linux Install….Moving on
I think I am a patient woman. I think I am a reasonable woman. But everyone, including the penguins, has their limits. Suse, for as wonderful as the beginner package was, is useless to me. The second distro in a row that will not utilize my wifi! I went to the links that so many of you provided, thank you. I also badgered my own Linux Jedi, Jonathan, and he too is at a loss for why it will not workI think I need to give the Linux journey a rest for a little while.
I have been getting a lot of comments on the JaK Attack pod cast about how Window users should stay with Windows if they are having such problems as I am. This (to paraphrase one of our English listeners) is bollocks! How the hell are you supposed to spread the word of Linux if one of your arguments for it is that it is for the exclusive few rather than a universal user. Fortunately there are enough friendly Linux supporters out there that you negative humbugs are hopelessly out numbered! In fact, I feel I grew as a possible Linux user due to all the readers and listeners out there that championed Linux and sent me helpful links and comments to aid my journey. These users are the reason I am not giving up on Linux, just changing my tactics!
I have discovered a few things about Linux on a laptop due to this experiment…..in general….it has a long way to go. I realize I only tried 2 distros thus far, but each time I brought up my Linux problems with other users I was almost always told that I should use a desktop, not a laptop for this little journey of mine. The few Linux laptop users that were happy with their configuration – Jonathan included – admitted that was no rhyme or reason to why it would work with one wireless connection and not another one.
One good insight came from a diner conversation with a friend of Jon’s and mine, Aaron Seigo. It’s not uncommon for hardware vendors to make multiple versions of a driver or firmware and fail to change the version number. A given driver or piece of firmware may have a bug, or need a tweak and rather than uprev the version number (which causes ripples in marketing, tech support, and who knows what else), they just quietly release it without telling anyone.
That’s why person A with a Broadcom 4318 wifi card has it working no problem, but person B can’t get it working to save his or her life. It’s also the reason why trying multiple and apparently identical drivers will sometimes yield one that works. The drivers or firmware have been changed by the manufacturer but they haven’t bothered to tell anyone.
Failing to uprev the version number when making a change is a business practice that has no support in the tech community. The entire purpose of version numbers is to identify things that are different. Producing two different “things” and assigning them the same version number is just plain old bad karma.
Regardless of the whys, the result is still the same – I could not get a functioning operating system on my laptop while using Linux.
An even greater insight was with the Linux users. As I mentioned above, most were extrememly helpful while others were like little Gollums, protecting the precious!This group would read my blog or listen to my podcast and simply state that I should stick with windows. That if I wanted to play with Linux I should do it via a live disk, on the desktop, or through a windows emulator like WINE. This group just didn’t get it. I was not part of their elite group and there for not worthy of being considered a true Linux user. I should stick with Windows. These people need to get out more.Luckily there were more than enough Linux supporters out there that I was not swayed by this unfortunate few.
I will try Linux again. I will still use it on my laptop, but I will try the live cd’s until I find a distro that is friendlier to my 4318 wifi card. This does not mean I regret trying the clean installs of the past. That was the whole foundation of my experiment. Can a new user simply install Linux on their laptop and use it will minimal complications. The answer is no. Linux is not quite there yet. However the Linux society is there. I feel comfortable that in the future, I will eventually get a handle of this penguin friendly operating system because of the supportive and knowledgeable Linux family.
And so my summer project is complete, at least this chapter is. I will try the Linux distros with the live cd’s and keep all of you informed, but I can no longer be without my internet connection on my laptop. I thank all those who helped along the way.
July 26th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
Hi kelly, I had a really huge reply to your blog post. But for some mistake triying to to run the spell checking it just murder my post. Good, since I guess it was too long for a comment.
In a nutshell, what you have been experience is basically having a bad hardware. Bad windows proprietary hardware that has and even more evil wifi card.
My suggestion next time around you come to experiemnt with linux? Drop that wifi card and get a new one. This should be the new linux user very first lesson. Learn how to buy good hardware. There is nothing more frustrating that having to run a proprietary hardware, and you have one.
So places you can look for getting new hardware:
Mandriva Hardware List
LinuxQuestion.org HCL
Distro (Ubuntu) Wiki
This is the space where some commercial linux manufacturers have make inroads such as linspire and have even created exclusive linux versions for laptops such as Linspire. You can even see they have gone into bed with some manufacturers to purify their hardware and promote them as all-in-one deal. But most of the community not just doesn’t know about it but they usually don’t value it since they feel end users are as knowledgable as them, or have enough time to mess with it which is not true.
July 26th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Well done for trying. Cant count the number of installs that I have done over the years, most doomed to failure.
At the current rate of development I am sure it wont be long before you find that Sue or a similar “easy” distro meets your needs.
oh and all the best to you and Jon on the up and comings.
July 27th, 2006 at 8:47 am
JZA, all goo points, thank you for that. I feel I must point out one thing about this project, it was an atempt to get a Linux operating system …well…operating….on my laptop. Regardless of how bad my hardware seems to be, it is a good laptop and runs rather well with windows. The idea or foundation of this project was for a new average user - not that there is anything average about me - to bring Linux to their laptop. If I have to go and buy new hardware for that to work, well that defeats the purpose.Asking me to buy new cards in order to run Linux is not a selling feature.
That being said, these are good points and good sites to visit if someone is in the process of re-vamping prior to using Linux. Thanks again.
KPG
July 27th, 2006 at 8:48 am
Aussiedini, thanks for the good wishes and the comment. I plan to keep trying, but with a dual boot and live CDs. I will keep you posted for sure!
KPG
July 27th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Maybe is not, however apple ask for this all the time, games also require you to upgrade your video card, and also microsoft releases. Right now Microsoft is hopping to sell tons of Vista licenses, yet they are giving requirements so high that normal desktop users will have to buy a new computer in order to run the new Windows operating system.
I agree that asking you for new hardware is not a good selling argument, however proprietary vendors have prove this statement wrong continously.
July 27th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
JZA, good form! I can see your point, and Jonathan and I have debated this at great length as well. I understand that there are ethical issues behind choosing an operating system like Linux, and that those issues support the purchase of whatever hardware will best support thid choice. My arguement is that apple is different in that you need that computer for that operating system. I am not purchasing a Microsoft computer and trying to put Linux on it, I have Acer. Jonathan has a Dell with Linux on it, which could just as easily be Windows.
So while I agree with you to a point, I don’t think you can group Linux an Apple requirements on the same parallel….And considering all of the support, books, install programs and blogs for people to switch from Microsoft to Linux ( on their curently owned equipment) I again have to stick to my guns. Most people tell me to try a new distro, not a new computer.
KPG
July 27th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Kudos on being braver than I. I haven’t tried Linux on a laptop due to a fear of the stuff you HAVE to use since it’s built into the darned thing(laptop). I use PcLinuxOS as my desktop install, but of course with a desktop PC I can pick and choose and change hardware if needed.
My own W.A.G. is Laptop linux will be something I try in late 2007…maybe. or by then I may just buy a new laptop and make sure everything in it is penguin friendly.
July 28th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
I’ve got an atheros 802.11G wifi card I could donate to your project…I can’t use it with my laptop and it’s just laying around at this point.
August 2nd, 2006 at 10:24 am
Hi Kelly.
Listening to your journey on your podcast. I would like to commend you for your attempt - while also encourage you to continue. Your quest is exactly what the ‘linux’ world needs - tough love! Developers need to start thinking about users and not just cool code (I’m at fault here as well… the kewl factor :-)). I hope you can find the resolve to continue. Perhaps find another wireless hardware solution if that was where the largest source of your frustration resides?
Great show. Enjoy Victoria.
J
August 2nd, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Try this site -
http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/
If you can, get an Ubuntu Live CD, boot it. Open up the Terminal and type -
lspci -v
Please post the results back to me and I’ll be able to tell you what you may need to do.
Ivan Groznii
August 11th, 2006 at 9:47 am
A quick note to all the comments above…thank you so much for your help! I will be trying the live CDs shortly…but I just got back from Victoria …made Jonathan Mr Penguin Guy!
So stay tuned!
KPG